I am also conflicted, because you cannot trust our government. However, I think unrestricted TikTok is more dangerous. A sophisticated CCP psyop.
I see speculation that ByteDance is considering the sale of TikTok minus the algorithm. They don't want us to see it. And they don't allow that algorithm in China.
You can intuit what a CCP algorithm aimed at our youth might promote by comparing it to the Facebook psych experiments on teens, and the Cambridge Analytica violations. One difference is that we were able to find out about these manipulations. We will never know what the CCP is doing.
They have repeatedly lied about the data storage issue, and that's way secondary to the manipulation of TikTok users.
I, too, am concerned the censorship industrial complex will go after X. I think Elon has erected a partial shield because he has open sourced the X algorithms. This isn't absolute, but if the Feds want to after him they will, with or without this law. Look what they are doing to Trump.
Great post Mr Carter! The whole situation is a bit of a "Gordian Knot". I agree with your view that the language in the bill is overly broad. It's alway overly broad in the swamps of DC. I also see the pragmatic reason to not allow our biggest global rival have such unfettered access to our country. What'd that wise man in Hong Kong say? "Don't trust China! China is asshole!"
Bytedance expressed its intention to go public in the US in 2021. However, the planned initial public offering (IPO) was halted by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). It might be prudent to reconsider the IPO, as it could potentially benefit everyone involved financially and alleviate concerns surrounding TikTok.
I don't think the TikTok situation is that complicated. Some simple regulation to stop collecting user data would resolve about 90% of the issues with TikTok and the Chinese CCP. Maybe requiring an opt-in via the Apple App Store or Google Play, with the default being opt-out.
This is full of inconsistencies and conflicts for many of us. Consider:
1. Biden bans US government from use of TikTok, but is glued to the platform for his re-election campaign;
2. TikTok could be considered a "Media" company, [As all socials are really being used as (FB, Twitter, Insta, etc.), which I don't agree with, but remember that Rupert Murdoch couldn't buy Fox until he became a US citizen (need fact checking?);
3. On a grand scale, like China invading Taiwan, or holding us hostage in manufactured goods such as drugs, chips, batteries, etc., is this the most urgent concern;
4. related to #3, data on Americans, including our health data, financial data, buying habits, are available legally and illegally through a variety of other companies and data sources; and
5. All of the social apps have extreme biases on what we see, when we see it, and hiding what they don't want us to see, while they see everything we do! Remember, ..."figures don't lie, but liars can figure."
I am more worried about growing anti-semitism, China and Russia expansion and their partnering up with Iran and North Korea as the new "Axis of Evil..." The impact of social apps on developing human brains is bigger than just TikTok.
Lets get manufacturing to diversify away from China and avoid them taking over Taiwan and interrupting the $Trillions supply chain for semi-conductors and other goods... Lets create more and better social norms and parenting habits to minimize the impact on kids, especially as their minds and bodies are developing at hyper rates compared to adult minds.
Lastly I think we need to take a look at the effect when India banned tick tock and I think they benefited tremendously. Yes we're two very different countries but there's something to be learned from that.
The real question is what's best for the greater good? Does that mean due to security concerns it should not be CCP owned? Probably.
Other all kinds of other related issues associated with that? Absolutely.
China and many countries in the Middle East play the long game and understand it much better than most people in Western Civilization and we have to acknowledge that. That brings up a whole range of other stuff that almost cannot be brought up without accusations of conspiratorial thought and crap like that, but to deny any existence of it is head in the sand denial of reality.
So what is the answer?
I agree with some aspects of arguments on both sides, so I am definitely not the guy to ask, but I can't argue with the government having some right and some say so in the matter.
We are still a very young Nation, relative to much of the world and we have avoided a lot of problems which have almost derailed other countries. Ultimately, I think we have to take into account the politics of the time and realize that our competitors and our enemies, who are not always one and the same, can not only get an unfair advantage in this environment but can also present a clear and present danger, to use a term I did not invent, and undoubtedly that has to be taken into account.
I had to chuckle when I saw this from Matt Taibbi this morning:
"US lawmakers finally went through with their posturing on the video-sharing and social media app TikTok, owned by Chinese corporation ByteDance. The company has nine months to divest before the app is banned in the United States. TikTok has a user base of more than 1.5 billion, with about 150 million inside the United States. The Chinese equivalent, Douyin, is only available domestically. It notably contains less content the Chinese Communist Party calls “资本主义铅中毒,” or lead poisoning for capitalists."
And this from Nellie Bowles:
"Even this week, when TikTok’s supposed head of public policy, Michael Beckerman, sent a letter to Congress, the metadata on the letter said it was created by a man named Zheng Han. Who is Zheng? An intern? What’s he up to? We have no idea! And isn’t it odd that the CEO of TikTok, who’s about to make a lot of money in a sale, is so upset by all this? The Chinese Communist Party is thinking that when they sell TikTok, they won’t sell the algorithm. It would be too damning if American technologists had a chance to peek under the hood. They’re also considering just shutting the whole thing down. Having unfettered access to America’s youth is an extraordinarily valuable thing for the CCP, who are thrilled to remind our teens that Tiananmen Square never happened, the Uyghurs are happy, Hong Kong Is Part of China Forever, identifying as a part-bird system of multiple personalities is valid, and Death to America."
A boring perspective, but TikTok probably means nothing in the big picture, especially if the Biden admin is willing to block it. Seriously, if this crew even comes close to not agreeing with something, must not be that bad. Zuckerbucks is so fucking rich, it's unbelievable. Was rooting for his demise at 90 bucks per share, but so much for that!
I just wonder what's really going on. This comes at a time when the EU, Australia and Brazil are pressuring X to close down accounts without notice to the holder, and in some cases want stuff removed world wide and not just in-country. Coincidentally elections are coming up everywhere in a few months. If they cared about our kids they would do something about fentanyl -- the government knows where it comes from, how it gets here and we all see the destruction, so I'm not convinced anyone really cares about the kids. As to the data, and I would leave it to others who have more knowledge, but so much data is for sale from AMZ, FB and any other business (or bought and paid for bureaucrats and elected officials) that can collect it that I wonder what the CCP really gains from this. I think this is a slick way to gain legal footing to begin to take down X and go back to the good old days of government run twitter.
And thanks to Duane Hershberger and Warren and JPB for comments. I'm less of a dope for reading them.
I am also conflicted, because you cannot trust our government. However, I think unrestricted TikTok is more dangerous. A sophisticated CCP psyop.
I see speculation that ByteDance is considering the sale of TikTok minus the algorithm. They don't want us to see it. And they don't allow that algorithm in China.
You can intuit what a CCP algorithm aimed at our youth might promote by comparing it to the Facebook psych experiments on teens, and the Cambridge Analytica violations. One difference is that we were able to find out about these manipulations. We will never know what the CCP is doing.
They have repeatedly lied about the data storage issue, and that's way secondary to the manipulation of TikTok users.
I, too, am concerned the censorship industrial complex will go after X. I think Elon has erected a partial shield because he has open sourced the X algorithms. This isn't absolute, but if the Feds want to after him they will, with or without this law. Look what they are doing to Trump.
Great post Mr Carter! The whole situation is a bit of a "Gordian Knot". I agree with your view that the language in the bill is overly broad. It's alway overly broad in the swamps of DC. I also see the pragmatic reason to not allow our biggest global rival have such unfettered access to our country. What'd that wise man in Hong Kong say? "Don't trust China! China is asshole!"
Bytedance expressed its intention to go public in the US in 2021. However, the planned initial public offering (IPO) was halted by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). It might be prudent to reconsider the IPO, as it could potentially benefit everyone involved financially and alleviate concerns surrounding TikTok.
The bill to shore up the border had already been deep-sixed by Republicans. Why bother trying to pass another when its fate is already sealed?
I don't think the TikTok situation is that complicated. Some simple regulation to stop collecting user data would resolve about 90% of the issues with TikTok and the Chinese CCP. Maybe requiring an opt-in via the Apple App Store or Google Play, with the default being opt-out.
This is full of inconsistencies and conflicts for many of us. Consider:
1. Biden bans US government from use of TikTok, but is glued to the platform for his re-election campaign;
2. TikTok could be considered a "Media" company, [As all socials are really being used as (FB, Twitter, Insta, etc.), which I don't agree with, but remember that Rupert Murdoch couldn't buy Fox until he became a US citizen (need fact checking?);
3. On a grand scale, like China invading Taiwan, or holding us hostage in manufactured goods such as drugs, chips, batteries, etc., is this the most urgent concern;
4. related to #3, data on Americans, including our health data, financial data, buying habits, are available legally and illegally through a variety of other companies and data sources; and
5. All of the social apps have extreme biases on what we see, when we see it, and hiding what they don't want us to see, while they see everything we do! Remember, ..."figures don't lie, but liars can figure."
I am more worried about growing anti-semitism, China and Russia expansion and their partnering up with Iran and North Korea as the new "Axis of Evil..." The impact of social apps on developing human brains is bigger than just TikTok.
Lets get manufacturing to diversify away from China and avoid them taking over Taiwan and interrupting the $Trillions supply chain for semi-conductors and other goods... Lets create more and better social norms and parenting habits to minimize the impact on kids, especially as their minds and bodies are developing at hyper rates compared to adult minds.
Tik Tok should probably be fairly low on what should be the list of our worries based on my reading of this retired CIA agent: https://andmagazine.substack.com/p/are-the-chinese-preparing-to-start
See also: A Tik-Tok-ing Timebomb: How TikTok's Global Platform Anomalies Align with the Chinese Communist Party's Geostrategic Objectives
https://networkcontagion.us/wp-content/uploads/A-Tik-Tok-ing-Timebomb_12.21.23.pdf
Lastly I think we need to take a look at the effect when India banned tick tock and I think they benefited tremendously. Yes we're two very different countries but there's something to be learned from that.
The real question is what's best for the greater good? Does that mean due to security concerns it should not be CCP owned? Probably.
Other all kinds of other related issues associated with that? Absolutely.
China and many countries in the Middle East play the long game and understand it much better than most people in Western Civilization and we have to acknowledge that. That brings up a whole range of other stuff that almost cannot be brought up without accusations of conspiratorial thought and crap like that, but to deny any existence of it is head in the sand denial of reality.
So what is the answer?
I agree with some aspects of arguments on both sides, so I am definitely not the guy to ask, but I can't argue with the government having some right and some say so in the matter.
We are still a very young Nation, relative to much of the world and we have avoided a lot of problems which have almost derailed other countries. Ultimately, I think we have to take into account the politics of the time and realize that our competitors and our enemies, who are not always one and the same, can not only get an unfair advantage in this environment but can also present a clear and present danger, to use a term I did not invent, and undoubtedly that has to be taken into account.
I do not trust the CCP.
Anyone who does should have their head examined.
I had to chuckle when I saw this from Matt Taibbi this morning:
"US lawmakers finally went through with their posturing on the video-sharing and social media app TikTok, owned by Chinese corporation ByteDance. The company has nine months to divest before the app is banned in the United States. TikTok has a user base of more than 1.5 billion, with about 150 million inside the United States. The Chinese equivalent, Douyin, is only available domestically. It notably contains less content the Chinese Communist Party calls “资本主义铅中毒,” or lead poisoning for capitalists."
And this from Nellie Bowles:
"Even this week, when TikTok’s supposed head of public policy, Michael Beckerman, sent a letter to Congress, the metadata on the letter said it was created by a man named Zheng Han. Who is Zheng? An intern? What’s he up to? We have no idea! And isn’t it odd that the CEO of TikTok, who’s about to make a lot of money in a sale, is so upset by all this? The Chinese Communist Party is thinking that when they sell TikTok, they won’t sell the algorithm. It would be too damning if American technologists had a chance to peek under the hood. They’re also considering just shutting the whole thing down. Having unfettered access to America’s youth is an extraordinarily valuable thing for the CCP, who are thrilled to remind our teens that Tiananmen Square never happened, the Uyghurs are happy, Hong Kong Is Part of China Forever, identifying as a part-bird system of multiple personalities is valid, and Death to America."
A boring perspective, but TikTok probably means nothing in the big picture, especially if the Biden admin is willing to block it. Seriously, if this crew even comes close to not agreeing with something, must not be that bad. Zuckerbucks is so fucking rich, it's unbelievable. Was rooting for his demise at 90 bucks per share, but so much for that!
I just wonder what's really going on. This comes at a time when the EU, Australia and Brazil are pressuring X to close down accounts without notice to the holder, and in some cases want stuff removed world wide and not just in-country. Coincidentally elections are coming up everywhere in a few months. If they cared about our kids they would do something about fentanyl -- the government knows where it comes from, how it gets here and we all see the destruction, so I'm not convinced anyone really cares about the kids. As to the data, and I would leave it to others who have more knowledge, but so much data is for sale from AMZ, FB and any other business (or bought and paid for bureaucrats and elected officials) that can collect it that I wonder what the CCP really gains from this. I think this is a slick way to gain legal footing to begin to take down X and go back to the good old days of government run twitter.
And thanks to Duane Hershberger and Warren and JPB for comments. I'm less of a dope for reading them.