I design products that use solar in the oilfields(with batteries). Solar panels are great for charging batteries. I have no beef with anyone that purchases their whatever with their own money. When the government awards 'winners' based on ideology, it is never good for a free market. Also, those panels are made with toxic materials such as Cadmium that were outlawed in industry in the 90s.
I really appreciate this commentary. Its hard for normal people to wade through the BS sales pitch on solar. I like it for camping and thats about it. Here in North Idaho, it would have been ok in certain places before they started spraying the sky so much. Id say around 65% or more of normally sunny days you can see the streaks that turn into a thin haze blocking sunlight. Ill say it does seem to be a bit cooler when they that just because the radiant heat from the sun is pretty intense here. But what is it, and how will it affect air quality? There is just generally not enough good sun here for solar to be anything more than a minor supplement for a homeowner, without massive battery banks. And they really do need to figure out disposal on these things.
Jeffrey, look at you being all Green and virtuous. but, like always, you do a good job on the economic issues for your situation. There is a much more important question to be answered. Does any of the energy that you "sell back" ever get used by the power companies other customers and how much of it actually arrives with enough juice to be used by others. Or, are the utility companies, due to our highly intelligent political stewards in their wisdom, forced to take it regardless of its ability to truly provide power for others? I could have a naive view as I am not involved in this industry directly...
No idea at all. Perhaps an electrical engineer could tell us. There is an issue of "balance" in power grids. You can't just pump out high levels of power otherwise you short out the grid. They must know how much is coming into the grid (my meter)
As an EE in the electric power industry for over 50 years I would love to provide a simple layman’s answer, but I can’t do it justice in an iPhone text manner, but I will try. Think of the electrical grid, including the wires coming into your meter and then to every outlet in your house as a big reservoir of water ready to feed your ‘device’ that you plug into your outlet and then turn on. Real big generators are pumping energy into the reservoir so that all the customers needs are met (balanced) in real time. So if your house or the local super mart or hospital has generation sources that not only meet their own needs but exceeds the needs, that excess will go into the real-time reservoir as measured by your meter. On a macro scale your excess is minute to the entire grid, but is real. Now multiply your contribution by a thousand other houses in your area and the total contribution makes a bigger difference.
Also, what power are you putting into the network at night? My unsubstantiated feeling is that at a macro level, the bursty, daytime only power from solar gets wasted. The farther from a user or storage device (battery), the more you lose getting there, and it dissipates if not used. Ohh. and Happy Fourth!
I have solar panels on my house in North Texas and a hunting cabin (also known as the dacha) in West Texas. The latter because there was no optional. Since it's small, it worked well as designed and now that we do have a grid option, what I sell back balances out the security of the grid. One nice thing there is we can shop for suppliers and that makes a big difference. Also it doesn't rain much.
Based on that we added panels to the house in North Texas, and it's okay but there are some problems. One the installer undersized the system (my son did the same and made them increase the number of panels on his house). Second, this half-assed version of Austin we live in has a monoply on electricity and they basically decided this year to cut the buyback rate in half. So while it saves me about 100-150 a month, it isn't as close to break even as it is out west. More panels would be the solution but...
The Dacha! My cabins were off the grid. They are now on the grid. We have well and septic but prior to that, it was a spring on the hill for water and no electricity. Just a generator! The solar allowed us to run some lights. There are still manual drills in our shed from building it.
Good info, Jeff! Have they found a way to prevent/delay the degradation of the solar panels? I’ve been experimenting with car headlight restoration spray on our solar lights. It’s supposed to stop plastic from getting “sunburned” i.e. hazed over. But maybe not practical for a large array. And of course, it’s a petro-chemical, so can’t live without oil!
The degradation is supposedly a lot slower but it still degrades. I used Tesla panels which they claimed to be cutting edge at the time I put them up. I decided to go with Tesla because of the brand. Too many fly by night solar shills. People on Reddit bitch about their service but my experience isn't that.
There is a you tube channel, Matt Ferrell Undecided: It's kind of fascinating. He covers new technogies mostly electrical and material. He's done a one or two on recycling of solar panels and turbines. It appears to be getting closer or at least more economical. He's a bit of a utopian, but not decidedly so.
At our country house we are subject to occasional outages--sometimes multi-day. We've investigated (and may well opt for) whole house generator back-up with propane.
That said, I think the power wall might make more sense long term (and perhaps be a bit less obtrusive and obviously less noisy).
We figured we would install solar when we re-roof the house.
https://www.tesla.com/powerwall The key is to see how many you need to power your house for how many days. The solar is attached to the Powerwall, and fills it before it sends electricity back out to the grid. When the power goes out, the house uses the Powerwall for electricity. Solar refills it. Of course, at night, it doesn't. Cloudy days, you get less solar energy....they do have a functional life because batteries will degrade over time.
Gas powered splitter.....my grandfather had some very sharp axes and mauls that he left here but he also bought a gas powered splitter. Maple is HARD. Posted a photo on X @pointsnfigures1 account. Got about a face cord of wood.
When I built a luxury spec house in Boulder 7 plus years back I put on solar. It was $23K... and really just a marketing effort... I mean, Boulder. It's a 5000 ft2 house with a loft over the garage, and the bills were very low, but a great deal of that was due to my attention to detail in sealing the house (Tyvek Flex Wrap) insulation, and very good Marvin Low-e windows on the elevations the cost is useful (this is a feature to reduce sun), stone and stucco shaded with porches.
BUT!! At the time it was NOT for a blackout. Xcel insists the entire system to be set up to NOT back feed the grid on a power outage do linesmen don't have to worry about power on the line they have de-energized elsewhere from the generation station. One does not want to get hit with 14K volt power. I presume the Powerwall prevents this with a switchover?
As an aside, though I told my accountant, it seems if you don't live there you don't get the tax credit. The $23K was just to attract a buyer.
I design products that use solar in the oilfields(with batteries). Solar panels are great for charging batteries. I have no beef with anyone that purchases their whatever with their own money. When the government awards 'winners' based on ideology, it is never good for a free market. Also, those panels are made with toxic materials such as Cadmium that were outlawed in industry in the 90s.
I really appreciate this commentary. Its hard for normal people to wade through the BS sales pitch on solar. I like it for camping and thats about it. Here in North Idaho, it would have been ok in certain places before they started spraying the sky so much. Id say around 65% or more of normally sunny days you can see the streaks that turn into a thin haze blocking sunlight. Ill say it does seem to be a bit cooler when they that just because the radiant heat from the sun is pretty intense here. But what is it, and how will it affect air quality? There is just generally not enough good sun here for solar to be anything more than a minor supplement for a homeowner, without massive battery banks. And they really do need to figure out disposal on these things.
Jeffrey, look at you being all Green and virtuous. but, like always, you do a good job on the economic issues for your situation. There is a much more important question to be answered. Does any of the energy that you "sell back" ever get used by the power companies other customers and how much of it actually arrives with enough juice to be used by others. Or, are the utility companies, due to our highly intelligent political stewards in their wisdom, forced to take it regardless of its ability to truly provide power for others? I could have a naive view as I am not involved in this industry directly...
No idea at all. Perhaps an electrical engineer could tell us. There is an issue of "balance" in power grids. You can't just pump out high levels of power otherwise you short out the grid. They must know how much is coming into the grid (my meter)
As an EE in the electric power industry for over 50 years I would love to provide a simple layman’s answer, but I can’t do it justice in an iPhone text manner, but I will try. Think of the electrical grid, including the wires coming into your meter and then to every outlet in your house as a big reservoir of water ready to feed your ‘device’ that you plug into your outlet and then turn on. Real big generators are pumping energy into the reservoir so that all the customers needs are met (balanced) in real time. So if your house or the local super mart or hospital has generation sources that not only meet their own needs but exceeds the needs, that excess will go into the real-time reservoir as measured by your meter. On a macro scale your excess is minute to the entire grid, but is real. Now multiply your contribution by a thousand other houses in your area and the total contribution makes a bigger difference.
Also, what power are you putting into the network at night? My unsubstantiated feeling is that at a macro level, the bursty, daytime only power from solar gets wasted. The farther from a user or storage device (battery), the more you lose getting there, and it dissipates if not used. Ohh. and Happy Fourth!
I have solar panels on my house in North Texas and a hunting cabin (also known as the dacha) in West Texas. The latter because there was no optional. Since it's small, it worked well as designed and now that we do have a grid option, what I sell back balances out the security of the grid. One nice thing there is we can shop for suppliers and that makes a big difference. Also it doesn't rain much.
Based on that we added panels to the house in North Texas, and it's okay but there are some problems. One the installer undersized the system (my son did the same and made them increase the number of panels on his house). Second, this half-assed version of Austin we live in has a monoply on electricity and they basically decided this year to cut the buyback rate in half. So while it saves me about 100-150 a month, it isn't as close to break even as it is out west. More panels would be the solution but...
The Dacha! My cabins were off the grid. They are now on the grid. We have well and septic but prior to that, it was a spring on the hill for water and no electricity. Just a generator! The solar allowed us to run some lights. There are still manual drills in our shed from building it.
I have considered putting solar on here since I would sell back about 9 months of the year but haven't done the math. Our electricity comes from Arrowhead Co-op. They run a good operation. But it looks like the payback period would be an eon or so based on this: https://www.novapowerportal.com/Documents/ViewLibrary/345?doc=Cogeneration%20Rate%20Schedule&key=AF2F9CF42C59
Good info, Jeff! Have they found a way to prevent/delay the degradation of the solar panels? I’ve been experimenting with car headlight restoration spray on our solar lights. It’s supposed to stop plastic from getting “sunburned” i.e. hazed over. But maybe not practical for a large array. And of course, it’s a petro-chemical, so can’t live without oil!
The degradation is supposedly a lot slower but it still degrades. I used Tesla panels which they claimed to be cutting edge at the time I put them up. I decided to go with Tesla because of the brand. Too many fly by night solar shills. People on Reddit bitch about their service but my experience isn't that.
There is a you tube channel, Matt Ferrell Undecided: It's kind of fascinating. He covers new technogies mostly electrical and material. He's done a one or two on recycling of solar panels and turbines. It appears to be getting closer or at least more economical. He's a bit of a utopian, but not decidedly so.
Can you share more about power walls, pls?
At our country house we are subject to occasional outages--sometimes multi-day. We've investigated (and may well opt for) whole house generator back-up with propane.
That said, I think the power wall might make more sense long term (and perhaps be a bit less obtrusive and obviously less noisy).
We figured we would install solar when we re-roof the house.
Thanks!
https://www.tesla.com/powerwall The key is to see how many you need to power your house for how many days. The solar is attached to the Powerwall, and fills it before it sends electricity back out to the grid. When the power goes out, the house uses the Powerwall for electricity. Solar refills it. Of course, at night, it doesn't. Cloudy days, you get less solar energy....they do have a functional life because batteries will degrade over time.
Thanks!
Are you going to use a wedge and sledgehammer, axe or gas-powered splitter?
Gas powered splitter.....my grandfather had some very sharp axes and mauls that he left here but he also bought a gas powered splitter. Maple is HARD. Posted a photo on X @pointsnfigures1 account. Got about a face cord of wood.
When I built a luxury spec house in Boulder 7 plus years back I put on solar. It was $23K... and really just a marketing effort... I mean, Boulder. It's a 5000 ft2 house with a loft over the garage, and the bills were very low, but a great deal of that was due to my attention to detail in sealing the house (Tyvek Flex Wrap) insulation, and very good Marvin Low-e windows on the elevations the cost is useful (this is a feature to reduce sun), stone and stucco shaded with porches.
BUT!! At the time it was NOT for a blackout. Xcel insists the entire system to be set up to NOT back feed the grid on a power outage do linesmen don't have to worry about power on the line they have de-energized elsewhere from the generation station. One does not want to get hit with 14K volt power. I presume the Powerwall prevents this with a switchover?
As an aside, though I told my accountant, it seems if you don't live there you don't get the tax credit. The $23K was just to attract a buyer.