The whole problem with this debate is framing it as a binary. Immigrants are not uniformly good or uniformly bad.
Once upon a time "discriminating" was a compliment, e.g., discriminating taste. We need to be discriminating about immigration, and immigrants.
Some things should be no-brainers. EG, MS-13 members. The challenge is that the quality of discriminating depends on the amount of information. Ruling out entire countries is likely too crude, but national origin is correlated with desirable and undesirably characteristics and behaviors. Taking more information into account is more costly.
Which is another reason to go to a price mechanism. Willingness and ability to pay is strongly correlated with desirable characteristics and behaviors. Markets economize on information. Here is a perfect place to exploit that.
Price is nice. Got in a huge debate with a lawyer friend about minimum wage (they are vociferously for it). I mentioned a market system and they said it wouldn't work...no way to persuade them....
Well done again! I am the son of immigrants. My parents came, in the 1950s, in search of better lives (they were fleeing communism (Ukraine) and La Violencia (in Colombia.) They learned English - but my siblings and I we grew up trilingual - and they became citizens as quickly as they could.
For them, it was an absolute privilege to be able to live in the United States. They were super proud to be Americans. While we lived in housing that was partially subsidized, my parents never sought or received government handouts. They worked their tails off to make sure they could send us to Catholic schools. I thank them daily for their sacrifices, which were plentiful.
Illegal immigrants all should be deported. My parents would agree with me completely.
Yes, agree 100% but as I keep arguing on my neighborhood FB page, the Democrats don't care if people are here legally or not. It's just amazing. How did we get to this point?
Liberals have hijacked the language of the criminal justice and legal systems in this country. As an example they managed to redefine legal terms like "illegal alien" into "immigrant" in public discussions thereby mitigating the illegal of conduct of people crossing our borders without the proper visas. This concept was explained all the way back in 1993 by Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan's essay "Defining Deviancy Down." You also see it in other fields like EEO which have been weaponized into DEI. Also going unsaid in the illegal alien invasion is that over 1,000,000 people find a way to enter this country legally, with visas as "resident aliens." I am all for immigration but follow the laws governing it, not whatever the whims of the executive branch are at the moment.
Bravo Mr. Carter! I could not have said it better. And my wife and her family, who immigrated from Europe the legal way years ago, appreciate these views as well.
Jeffrey, well said. My wife waited 14 years to become a citizen after she came over the right way. There were no hand outs, her first job was for a European diplomat that among other things required her to iron his bed sheets before putting fresh sheets on his bed every day. She then went to work for a Washington lobbyist managing his household (taking the kids to activities, cooking the evening meal, supervising the housekeeper/grounds crew). She was with them for 10 years and her salary started at $200 a week and after ten years was still $200 a week. The government never gave her a hand out and she earned her American citizenship. This is why our President carried areas with huge legal immigrant communities. Nobody gave them a free pass.
People used to immigrate for opportunity, not social welfare. Very rarely did someone come here with no support; friend, colleague, family, who sponsored them when they arrived.
There are over 50 million more people in South America who have expressed a strong desire to immigrate to the U.S.
These people are not coming to pursue their happiness. They’re trying to get a better deal from the government, and social services. Their country of origin is corrupt, dangerous, and not desirable. In the U.S. they will get healthcare and welfare-
It’s not that complicated. People will keep coming here until the standard of living is equal to where they are leaving. ( add in the cost of the move if you want)
So we need to take away the incentive.
Make non citizens pay very high income taxes.
Make non citizens pay for all education - no public school for your ninos and ninas-
No free healthcare for non- citizens.
Feel free to hire them, but they must be accounted for- anyone hiring an illegal “off the books” pays a massive fines.
There are 40 million illegals here now.Several studies by Wall Street firms in 2013-2015 had the number closer to 25 million than the 11 million that’s now the number the idiots throw around.
If we deport 30,000 a day, it will take 10 years! So we need to make them want to leave.
If they want to stay, pay the high taxes, and accept the terms, then they will be helping us pay down our debts, and contributing to the economy.
We just can’t afford to have millions and millions of freeloaders consuming benefits and taking advantage of our generous and kind elected officials, who are being chased by pragmatism, but are always too fast to be caught.
Were my immigrant ancestors "legal" immigrants? Well, yes, because there WERE NO "immigration laws" when they arrived. The first immigration law was the Page Act of 1875, restricting some Chinese. By the time they wrote the first laws restricting Greek immigrants, my Greek grandfather had already earned his citizenship by serving in the US Army during World War I. I have a copy of a document which is both his Honorable Discharge and his American citizenship.
I’ve been trying to make this point for years but my west side of Chicago vernacular and my old age brain has limited me. Thanks for saying it so well!
Hear, hear!!! From 1924 to 1964 we imported almost zero foreigners which is why LBJ forwarded the Immigration Act as no majority of white men voted demonrat in 1964 or since.
Like any other successful team we want those that will help, not the looters. Somalian's come to mind...
So grateful to see the return of sensibility and enforcing laws in the area of immigration. So many of the reasons you and others in the thread have mentioned make such a huge difference to the success or failure of a Nation, especially over a generation or two's time.
My father grew up in an apartment on the west side of Chicago with seven adult immigrants, all of whom came here legally post World War 1, and was taught the value of hard work.
No successful Nation can withstand an unfettered mess of illegal aliens flooding the borders without detrimental effects.
Until recently I would have said I am constantly amazed at the number of people who failed to differentiate between legal immigration and illegal aliens flooding a border, but I've become numbed by the idiocy so prevalent in mainstream media and social media. That stated, ignorance by millions does not negate the legality or sensibility.
Do it the right way, or don't do it at all and pay the consequences.
The whole problem with this debate is framing it as a binary. Immigrants are not uniformly good or uniformly bad.
Once upon a time "discriminating" was a compliment, e.g., discriminating taste. We need to be discriminating about immigration, and immigrants.
Some things should be no-brainers. EG, MS-13 members. The challenge is that the quality of discriminating depends on the amount of information. Ruling out entire countries is likely too crude, but national origin is correlated with desirable and undesirably characteristics and behaviors. Taking more information into account is more costly.
Which is another reason to go to a price mechanism. Willingness and ability to pay is strongly correlated with desirable characteristics and behaviors. Markets economize on information. Here is a perfect place to exploit that.
Price is nice. Got in a huge debate with a lawyer friend about minimum wage (they are vociferously for it). I mentioned a market system and they said it wouldn't work...no way to persuade them....
Well done again! I am the son of immigrants. My parents came, in the 1950s, in search of better lives (they were fleeing communism (Ukraine) and La Violencia (in Colombia.) They learned English - but my siblings and I we grew up trilingual - and they became citizens as quickly as they could.
For them, it was an absolute privilege to be able to live in the United States. They were super proud to be Americans. While we lived in housing that was partially subsidized, my parents never sought or received government handouts. They worked their tails off to make sure they could send us to Catholic schools. I thank them daily for their sacrifices, which were plentiful.
Illegal immigrants all should be deported. My parents would agree with me completely.
Yes, agree 100% but as I keep arguing on my neighborhood FB page, the Democrats don't care if people are here legally or not. It's just amazing. How did we get to this point?
And just how did we go from a women's liberation movement to allowing dudes to dominate women's sports and share locker rooms with the girls?
I'm honestly waiting for my neighborhood to start flying the mexican flag on the 4th of July.
I would take a guess you live somewhere in California like I do?
Hehe, I'm in bay area.
Liberals have hijacked the language of the criminal justice and legal systems in this country. As an example they managed to redefine legal terms like "illegal alien" into "immigrant" in public discussions thereby mitigating the illegal of conduct of people crossing our borders without the proper visas. This concept was explained all the way back in 1993 by Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan's essay "Defining Deviancy Down." You also see it in other fields like EEO which have been weaponized into DEI. Also going unsaid in the illegal alien invasion is that over 1,000,000 people find a way to enter this country legally, with visas as "resident aliens." I am all for immigration but follow the laws governing it, not whatever the whims of the executive branch are at the moment.
Bravo Mr. Carter! I could not have said it better. And my wife and her family, who immigrated from Europe the legal way years ago, appreciate these views as well.
Good distinction. Well said.
Jeffrey, well said. My wife waited 14 years to become a citizen after she came over the right way. There were no hand outs, her first job was for a European diplomat that among other things required her to iron his bed sheets before putting fresh sheets on his bed every day. She then went to work for a Washington lobbyist managing his household (taking the kids to activities, cooking the evening meal, supervising the housekeeper/grounds crew). She was with them for 10 years and her salary started at $200 a week and after ten years was still $200 a week. The government never gave her a hand out and she earned her American citizenship. This is why our President carried areas with huge legal immigrant communities. Nobody gave them a free pass.
People used to immigrate for opportunity, not social welfare. Very rarely did someone come here with no support; friend, colleague, family, who sponsored them when they arrived.
There are over 50 million more people in South America who have expressed a strong desire to immigrate to the U.S.
These people are not coming to pursue their happiness. They’re trying to get a better deal from the government, and social services. Their country of origin is corrupt, dangerous, and not desirable. In the U.S. they will get healthcare and welfare-
It’s not that complicated. People will keep coming here until the standard of living is equal to where they are leaving. ( add in the cost of the move if you want)
So we need to take away the incentive.
Make non citizens pay very high income taxes.
Make non citizens pay for all education - no public school for your ninos and ninas-
No free healthcare for non- citizens.
Feel free to hire them, but they must be accounted for- anyone hiring an illegal “off the books” pays a massive fines.
There are 40 million illegals here now.Several studies by Wall Street firms in 2013-2015 had the number closer to 25 million than the 11 million that’s now the number the idiots throw around.
If we deport 30,000 a day, it will take 10 years! So we need to make them want to leave.
If they want to stay, pay the high taxes, and accept the terms, then they will be helping us pay down our debts, and contributing to the economy.
We just can’t afford to have millions and millions of freeloaders consuming benefits and taking advantage of our generous and kind elected officials, who are being chased by pragmatism, but are always too fast to be caught.
Were my immigrant ancestors "legal" immigrants? Well, yes, because there WERE NO "immigration laws" when they arrived. The first immigration law was the Page Act of 1875, restricting some Chinese. By the time they wrote the first laws restricting Greek immigrants, my Greek grandfather had already earned his citizenship by serving in the US Army during World War I. I have a copy of a document which is both his Honorable Discharge and his American citizenship.
I’ve been trying to make this point for years but my west side of Chicago vernacular and my old age brain has limited me. Thanks for saying it so well!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eyJIbSgdSE&t=138s
Friedman agrees!
The process needs to be lawful and orderly.
Right now, it is not.
Regain control, expel people who entered unlawfully, then and only then talk about who to let in lawfully in the future.
it wasn't lawful and orderly on the way in....send em back
Hear, hear!!! From 1924 to 1964 we imported almost zero foreigners which is why LBJ forwarded the Immigration Act as no majority of white men voted demonrat in 1964 or since.
Like any other successful team we want those that will help, not the looters. Somalian's come to mind...
So grateful to see the return of sensibility and enforcing laws in the area of immigration. So many of the reasons you and others in the thread have mentioned make such a huge difference to the success or failure of a Nation, especially over a generation or two's time.
My father grew up in an apartment on the west side of Chicago with seven adult immigrants, all of whom came here legally post World War 1, and was taught the value of hard work.
No successful Nation can withstand an unfettered mess of illegal aliens flooding the borders without detrimental effects.
Until recently I would have said I am constantly amazed at the number of people who failed to differentiate between legal immigration and illegal aliens flooding a border, but I've become numbed by the idiocy so prevalent in mainstream media and social media. That stated, ignorance by millions does not negate the legality or sensibility.
Do it the right way, or don't do it at all and pay the consequences.