In my professional life I run across a lot of people who describe themselves as entrepreneurs. Most of them are wrong.
As you said, an entrepreneur is someone who, if their business fails, finds it has a negative tangible effect on their personal life. Without that possible real negative outcome, someone is merely an investor. And that’s a whole different kettle of fish.
An entrepreneur’s hand shakes when they write that first check. They bet big on themselves. An investor bets rationally on others.
I remember when I first got my badge and you were Chairman of the Membership Committee and I was sitting there with a black eye and the other committee members were just staring at me, then you asked me how I got the black eye...good times
Ahhhh....Pat Lynch! Great trader...but tell him to stand up! Oh sorry...he is standing up. Great memories. I remember my first day on the trading floor thinking I would do this for a year or so and then leave. I finally left after 35 years and being on trading floors in NY and Chicago. Never being a local I really never had that view of the trading in the pit but working with the independent guys filling our orders was amazing. You meet the best of the best and the worst as well.
Thank you. Every single day was a hypothesis test. Could you survive? Or not. In 2008 when the snowflakes first started making noise, there was some email chain about a trader's letter....about how they will get up earlier, work later, and rip their balls off and stuff them in the Snowflakes mouth.....can't find it in a search but maybe someone has it deep in their email file. It's funny, but somewhat true.
Some people enjoy the show and bluster, or use it to get their own juices flowing all the more. Adrenalin is a helluva drug; I was never in The Pit but have been in some kinetic situations overseas that brought out the best and worst in people. Who really rises to the critical moments and how, versus who falls apart - most people don't know, themselves, if they haven't faced it.
Great writing. Really makes me think. Sitting here retired it's hard for me to know if I would have been able to make the cut as a youngster. I was certainly more willing to take risk, but don't know if that would have been enough. Kudos to you and everyone that has been there, done that.
Shit! I hit the wrong button and posted my comment. What I had left to say was information was going somewhere else first and market makers on the floor were getting picked off. The game was up.
Absolutely terrific writing. The immediacy was exactly what it was like. I was glad to see your 9 out of 10 comment. It is about what I thought. Once memberships opened up to leasing, the floor - the pits became like circus carousels. Get some money from your uncle or mom and dad, or grandpa, stroll on to the floor, jump on your favorite horse (pit) and try not to get thrown off. Unfortunately, as Jeff has described 9 out of 10 didn't make it. Their dream was crushed. The pit didn't care. The pit was a market maker.
What happened late in the open outcry market was, open outcry lost the "edge". The pit was where all market information came first to be processed into the price. Processors brought their information. Producers brought theirs. Intermediates brought their costs to hold, store, move, finance. The floor was where a "price" was established. And being on the floor gave you an edge. You could see/feel a price develop. You could see what the processors brokers were doing. You could get a sense of what the end users brokers needed or wanted. You could see clerks at desks urgently on the phone, then signalling their "guy" in the pit. By then it was too late. If you hadn't sussed a market direction before, good luck. Maybe you could scalp a little. Or take a spreader off some of his then lay off the wrong leg. Good luck with that.
Anyway - late in the open outcry period the "pit" started to get "picked off". It know
To this day, I still, at least a few times a year, reminisce with fondness and a lot of laughter the experiences of some friends of mine and I during the crash of 87 and the mini crash of 89 on the floor. If you ever get a chance to talk to Annie from Bear Stearns ever again, promise me you will ask her to tell you the story about the head bond trader on Black Friday. It is truly epic, historical proportions LOL he made more money that morning than some of the firms made all year.
That was the legendary:"Annie just start buying thousand lots", (with Euros down 250 points 😱), to which she replied:"How many?". He responded:"Just keep buying until they start laughing at you!"
He bought multiple tens of thousands between triple digits and double digits lower on the day and got out higher on the day.
I tell people who don’t know anything about the pit, that anyone can trade, but not everyone can do it. The dynamic of someone walking in the pit and being successful was as simple as : are you married? Do you have kids? Does your wife work? What’s your mortgage? The more of those that you said yes to, the less likely you would be to succeed. I can’t tell you how many people failed who failed primarily because they stood in front or next to me. Their thought or their backers thought was that he( me) makes the market with the guy behind me. Problem is , no one was ever looking below my shoulders for anyone to make a market
Great story! If I recall, the Eurodollar pit in 1995 had a 50 tick range for the year or something like that. I was in the Euros from 1986-2003, clerking there 86,87. In Feb 94, I got crushed on Unemployment. Lost 350k in like 10 minutes. Took the train home. Took a new loan on my seat (I had paid it off). Paid that new loan off in 6 weeks. Was off to the races until 2003....when it went computerized. I traded Hogs from 2004-2012. Should have been there earlier.
In my professional life I run across a lot of people who describe themselves as entrepreneurs. Most of them are wrong.
As you said, an entrepreneur is someone who, if their business fails, finds it has a negative tangible effect on their personal life. Without that possible real negative outcome, someone is merely an investor. And that’s a whole different kettle of fish.
An entrepreneur’s hand shakes when they write that first check. They bet big on themselves. An investor bets rationally on others.
I remember when I first got my badge and you were Chairman of the Membership Committee and I was sitting there with a black eye and the other committee members were just staring at me, then you asked me how I got the black eye...good times
Ha. Well, ya gotta hear the story and people like GEP were too interested in the food to ask.
I lost $300k on my best ever trading day. Woke up down over a million and when everyone else lost their mind I made a market and money.
plus commissions! That's a crazy day.
Ahhhh....Pat Lynch! Great trader...but tell him to stand up! Oh sorry...he is standing up. Great memories. I remember my first day on the trading floor thinking I would do this for a year or so and then leave. I finally left after 35 years and being on trading floors in NY and Chicago. Never being a local I really never had that view of the trading in the pit but working with the independent guys filling our orders was amazing. You meet the best of the best and the worst as well.
This is not my world but your writing has made it come alive for me. Thanks so much!
Thank you. Every single day was a hypothesis test. Could you survive? Or not. In 2008 when the snowflakes first started making noise, there was some email chain about a trader's letter....about how they will get up earlier, work later, and rip their balls off and stuff them in the Snowflakes mouth.....can't find it in a search but maybe someone has it deep in their email file. It's funny, but somewhat true.
Some people enjoy the show and bluster, or use it to get their own juices flowing all the more. Adrenalin is a helluva drug; I was never in The Pit but have been in some kinetic situations overseas that brought out the best and worst in people. Who really rises to the critical moments and how, versus who falls apart - most people don't know, themselves, if they haven't faced it.
Jeff Carter
Thanks for the articles you write.
Enjoyed reading all the locals comments on their experiences.
Hollis Griffin
Kudos Mr Carter! Thanks for the share! Vital insights!
This brings back some memories. Well done!
Great writing. Really makes me think. Sitting here retired it's hard for me to know if I would have been able to make the cut as a youngster. I was certainly more willing to take risk, but don't know if that would have been enough. Kudos to you and everyone that has been there, done that.
Shit! I hit the wrong button and posted my comment. What I had left to say was information was going somewhere else first and market makers on the floor were getting picked off. The game was up.
Again. Really good writing Jeff.
Absolutely terrific writing. The immediacy was exactly what it was like. I was glad to see your 9 out of 10 comment. It is about what I thought. Once memberships opened up to leasing, the floor - the pits became like circus carousels. Get some money from your uncle or mom and dad, or grandpa, stroll on to the floor, jump on your favorite horse (pit) and try not to get thrown off. Unfortunately, as Jeff has described 9 out of 10 didn't make it. Their dream was crushed. The pit didn't care. The pit was a market maker.
What happened late in the open outcry market was, open outcry lost the "edge". The pit was where all market information came first to be processed into the price. Processors brought their information. Producers brought theirs. Intermediates brought their costs to hold, store, move, finance. The floor was where a "price" was established. And being on the floor gave you an edge. You could see/feel a price develop. You could see what the processors brokers were doing. You could get a sense of what the end users brokers needed or wanted. You could see clerks at desks urgently on the phone, then signalling their "guy" in the pit. By then it was too late. If you hadn't sussed a market direction before, good luck. Maybe you could scalp a little. Or take a spreader off some of his then lay off the wrong leg. Good luck with that.
Anyway - late in the open outcry period the "pit" started to get "picked off". It know
To this day, I still, at least a few times a year, reminisce with fondness and a lot of laughter the experiences of some friends of mine and I during the crash of 87 and the mini crash of 89 on the floor. If you ever get a chance to talk to Annie from Bear Stearns ever again, promise me you will ask her to tell you the story about the head bond trader on Black Friday. It is truly epic, historical proportions LOL he made more money that morning than some of the firms made all year.
That was the legendary:"Annie just start buying thousand lots", (with Euros down 250 points 😱), to which she replied:"How many?". He responded:"Just keep buying until they start laughing at you!"
He bought multiple tens of thousands between triple digits and double digits lower on the day and got out higher on the day.
Do the math and you'll laugh also.
Well done my friend.
I tell people who don’t know anything about the pit, that anyone can trade, but not everyone can do it. The dynamic of someone walking in the pit and being successful was as simple as : are you married? Do you have kids? Does your wife work? What’s your mortgage? The more of those that you said yes to, the less likely you would be to succeed. I can’t tell you how many people failed who failed primarily because they stood in front or next to me. Their thought or their backers thought was that he( me) makes the market with the guy behind me. Problem is , no one was ever looking below my shoulders for anyone to make a market
I could write a book…
Great story! If I recall, the Eurodollar pit in 1995 had a 50 tick range for the year or something like that. I was in the Euros from 1986-2003, clerking there 86,87. In Feb 94, I got crushed on Unemployment. Lost 350k in like 10 minutes. Took the train home. Took a new loan on my seat (I had paid it off). Paid that new loan off in 6 weeks. Was off to the races until 2003....when it went computerized. I traded Hogs from 2004-2012. Should have been there earlier.
I love that story of when you got hit on a 1000 lot as they were going bid and you made 10 ticks on them!