A FB friend was observing that he doesn't ever find anyone interested in arguing religion anymore, whereas such discussions were quite common 15 years ago. My suggestion was that for a lot of people, political ideology serves in effect as a religion.
Put your full faith, hope, and trust in THE SCIENCE (blessed be upon its name). The AI Chatbots are currently in seminary learning how to be its High Priests. Doling out absolution for repentance for sin and casting out heretics.
Open the fucking window for a few minutes if you want to. Nobody is, has, or ever will suffer harm from a gas grill. Being on any given interstate for the evening commute will provide you with far more toxins. Just more fear BS. The typical household probably only cooks at home a few days per week and it's not like the thing is burning for 4 hours. They could give a shit if we choke on natural gas fumes or not, this is pollical hysteria.
You are right about them not giving a shit; they really don't. This is appeasement of their noisiest (and nastiest) voters and donors, and nothing else.
If they were told that saving the earth required killing us all they wouldn't hesitate to do it. Democrats are irrational at best, mentally ill at worst.
Thanks for the comment. Opening the f'ing window definitely old school. Not claiming that I'm in the know, but, to put on the same fearful hat as these people do about a harmless gas stove ,-- are EMF's possibly much more fearsome?
Seriously, is the platform of batteries below me in a EV, combined with the high-performance motors producing ferocious EMF fields within close proximity of my balls,, good? Am I nuts (pardon the pun) to prefer cooking dinner on a gas stove for 15 min versus cooking myself in EMF fields for hours on end while driving a tesla?
Whatever side you're on, you cannot fear monger on one side and forget the other.
Sure, opening a window in spring is probably fine. Not so much for the middle of summer or dead of winter. The harm is based on how much it's used -- as you describe, only a few days a week for 15 mins to maybe an hour -- not on some mythical 24/7 usage. Not to mention it seems like you're assuming perfect ventilation, and it's not that simple.
The stats on the health risks would include use of the exhaust fan. It doesn't suck up 100% of the fumes instantly and perfectly. I'm not sure why you're so convinced there (a) isn't a health risk, or (b) if there is, there's a trivial solution to it. It could be that, you know, there's a danger to the way we're currently doing things.
We are all going to die! What, if anything, sucks up anything instantly and perfectly? You crack me up, have a great night. Going to cook up dinner now and poison myself one more time.
The point is that if you don't like gas stoves, don't buy one. Like cigarettes, leave others to their own happiness. If it doesn't affect you, then let it be.
I lived in Japan in the 90s and the only source of heat in the winter was a kerosene heater. We cracked a window open slightly every night and lived to tell about the experience. A good electrostatic air purifier would remove most of the particulates. This is a tempest in a teapot.
Thanks for posting that. They make some good points, and that more research is needed. But even your link shows a correlation between gas stoves and childhood asthma, so it doesn't really refute the idea that they could be a danger. Just that it's correlation right now, not causation.
That’s my point. Unless and until you can prove causation the government should stay out of it. The health issue is a smokescreen and everyone knows it. This is simply another attempt to cut off any use of fossil fuels wherever possible having everything to do with climate cultism.
That ban will never happen. But when it dies, you morons will deserve it. Look up Rod Dreher’s “Law of Merited Impossibility”. See also: free speech. And meat. And gas cars.
I don't think it's just a ban on gas stoves, I think it's a ban on all new gas connections, whether for stoves, furnaces, waterheaters, or whatever. (with limited exceptions)
What alternatives will people choose? Some will choose propane, surely more expensive & deliveries problematic in sustained bad weather. Electric resistance heating crazy expensive. Heat pumps have improved, but ones that are efficient in NY temperatures will be expensive. May be an opportunity for geothermal heat pumps, but, again, high first cost.
Well, thoughout most of history the Common People have had a hard time staying warm in winter...maybe the era of mass affluence is over, not for any economic, technical, or climate reason, but because too many influential people *want* it to be over, and those who have no such desire are not pushing back effectively.
Switch to electricity they said. Then they turned off the electricity. Third World dictators do this keep their subjects oppressed. It’s a ruling strategy.
That, and lower the quality of life. "gas" is the operative word for them. These bans are political virtue signals. Nobody with a brain thinks that a natural gas stove does any harm to anything.
And honestly, if it does, it does. Life comes with risks. Do I want to live to 100 years old? In this day and age, not really. Life at that age is brutal.
There are interim mitigations, and this seems lost on Democrats. Things like stove hoods and a word called "moderation."
That's not exactly a well-researched response. Intuitively, the claim makes sense. Now I don't have a gas stove but I do have air purifiers, and when I cook, the number of particulates goes from 1-3 to 800-900. What about the claim seems illogical to you? Or alternately, do you have a link to a counterpoint to the claim?
Have you tried cooking with an electric stove to see how many particulates you have then? How much of the particulates are from the food aroma/release and how much is due to the gas?
A FB friend was observing that he doesn't ever find anyone interested in arguing religion anymore, whereas such discussions were quite common 15 years ago. My suggestion was that for a lot of people, political ideology serves in effect as a religion.
Put your full faith, hope, and trust in THE SCIENCE (blessed be upon its name). The AI Chatbots are currently in seminary learning how to be its High Priests. Doling out absolution for repentance for sin and casting out heretics.
Areas in California have already tried. Lawsuits have slowed down their attempts so far. https://calcoastnews.com/2023/04/san-luis-obispo-city-council-suspends-natural-gas-ban/
I believe the primary driver for this is not climate change but rather indoor pollutants.
https://rmi.org/gas-stoves-health-climate-asthma-risk/#:~:text=Gas%20stoves%20emit%20numerous%20pollutants,lungs%20and%20exacerbate%20respiratory%20issues.
they are full of shit.
Open the fucking window for a few minutes if you want to. Nobody is, has, or ever will suffer harm from a gas grill. Being on any given interstate for the evening commute will provide you with far more toxins. Just more fear BS. The typical household probably only cooks at home a few days per week and it's not like the thing is burning for 4 hours. They could give a shit if we choke on natural gas fumes or not, this is pollical hysteria.
This made me laugh, thank you.
You are right about them not giving a shit; they really don't. This is appeasement of their noisiest (and nastiest) voters and donors, and nothing else.
If they were told that saving the earth required killing us all they wouldn't hesitate to do it. Democrats are irrational at best, mentally ill at worst.
Thanks for the comment. Opening the f'ing window definitely old school. Not claiming that I'm in the know, but, to put on the same fearful hat as these people do about a harmless gas stove ,-- are EMF's possibly much more fearsome?
Seriously, is the platform of batteries below me in a EV, combined with the high-performance motors producing ferocious EMF fields within close proximity of my balls,, good? Am I nuts (pardon the pun) to prefer cooking dinner on a gas stove for 15 min versus cooking myself in EMF fields for hours on end while driving a tesla?
Whatever side you're on, you cannot fear monger on one side and forget the other.
Sure, opening a window in spring is probably fine. Not so much for the middle of summer or dead of winter. The harm is based on how much it's used -- as you describe, only a few days a week for 15 mins to maybe an hour -- not on some mythical 24/7 usage. Not to mention it seems like you're assuming perfect ventilation, and it's not that simple.
Where do you live, in Antarctica? Give me a freaking break. Perfect ventilation, you crack me up.
Ever heard of an exhaust fan that runs above the evil burners?
The stats on the health risks would include use of the exhaust fan. It doesn't suck up 100% of the fumes instantly and perfectly. I'm not sure why you're so convinced there (a) isn't a health risk, or (b) if there is, there's a trivial solution to it. It could be that, you know, there's a danger to the way we're currently doing things.
We are all going to die! What, if anything, sucks up anything instantly and perfectly? You crack me up, have a great night. Going to cook up dinner now and poison myself one more time.
Buy an electric one. I am allergic to cats. I don't own one
The point is that if you don't like gas stoves, don't buy one. Like cigarettes, leave others to their own happiness. If it doesn't affect you, then let it be.
Why is this so hard for Democrats to understand?
What one cooks is the source of most emissions. Which makes ventilation the key to reduce emissions. This was one of the good threads from January: https://twitter.com/saeverley/status/1613219364706344960
I lived in Japan in the 90s and the only source of heat in the winter was a kerosene heater. We cracked a window open slightly every night and lived to tell about the experience. A good electrostatic air purifier would remove most of the particulates. This is a tempest in a teapot.
That single meta analysis is full of holes and everyone knows it. If one is going to go about banning something that a significant portion of the population has been using for 100 years they had better have more evidence than that. https://www.allergicliving.com/2023/01/30/you-dont-need-to-ditch-your-gas-stove-asthma-experts/
Thanks for posting that. They make some good points, and that more research is needed. But even your link shows a correlation between gas stoves and childhood asthma, so it doesn't really refute the idea that they could be a danger. Just that it's correlation right now, not causation.
That’s my point. Unless and until you can prove causation the government should stay out of it. The health issue is a smokescreen and everyone knows it. This is simply another attempt to cut off any use of fossil fuels wherever possible having everything to do with climate cultism.
Wouldn't apply to gas heaters, which are externally vented.
That ban will never happen. But when it dies, you morons will deserve it. Look up Rod Dreher’s “Law of Merited Impossibility”. See also: free speech. And meat. And gas cars.
I don't think it's just a ban on gas stoves, I think it's a ban on all new gas connections, whether for stoves, furnaces, waterheaters, or whatever. (with limited exceptions)
What alternatives will people choose? Some will choose propane, surely more expensive & deliveries problematic in sustained bad weather. Electric resistance heating crazy expensive. Heat pumps have improved, but ones that are efficient in NY temperatures will be expensive. May be an opportunity for geothermal heat pumps, but, again, high first cost.
Well, thoughout most of history the Common People have had a hard time staying warm in winter...maybe the era of mass affluence is over, not for any economic, technical, or climate reason, but because too many influential people *want* it to be over, and those who have no such desire are not pushing back effectively.
Switch to electricity they said. Then they turned off the electricity. Third World dictators do this keep their subjects oppressed. It’s a ruling strategy.
That, and lower the quality of life. "gas" is the operative word for them. These bans are political virtue signals. Nobody with a brain thinks that a natural gas stove does any harm to anything.
And honestly, if it does, it does. Life comes with risks. Do I want to live to 100 years old? In this day and age, not really. Life at that age is brutal.
There are interim mitigations, and this seems lost on Democrats. Things like stove hoods and a word called "moderation."
yupppppp
That's not exactly a well-researched response. Intuitively, the claim makes sense. Now I don't have a gas stove but I do have air purifiers, and when I cook, the number of particulates goes from 1-3 to 800-900. What about the claim seems illogical to you? Or alternately, do you have a link to a counterpoint to the claim?
Nuance doesn't work with Marxists. People who are in the global warming cult fully are indeed Marxists.
Have you tried cooking with an electric stove to see how many particulates you have then? How much of the particulates are from the food aroma/release and how much is due to the gas?