I am okay with cleaning house. Start in 2024. Primary the RINOs and win. By the way, Trump backed candidates have lost a lot of significant races since and during 2020. I think real fiscal libertarian conservatism plays. I don't think Trump conservatism plays.
8 Republicans... and 208 Democrats voted McCarthy out. 8 out of 221 House Republicans. If Gaetz thought this would build faith and actual progress in the fiscal responsible agenda, agree he missed the mark big time. Democrats support this chaos since what is to come will all be blamed on Republicans.
What is to come? IMHO, November 17 will come fast for the next potential government shutdown. Now with no House leader, nothing will get done, and the idea that a new House leader will be in post haste is wishful thinking.
Fitch has downgraded US Debt to AA+, S&P has downgraded to AA+. When Moodys follows suit with a downgrade from AAA to AA+, this will have a ripple effect of turmoil throughout the economy and markets. All this bearishness suggests a market rally in the short term (Why? Because that's how markets work, and some central bank manipulation) but beware of November. Things don't look pretty ahead...
Gaetz looks like Newsome's slime ball brother. Never would have expected a Megyn podcast link, thanks. You forget to mention that beyond not understanding math or basic literacy, and being dumb, most of those folks are also 350+ pounder fatsos. A certain stupid cow Letitia comes to mind.
I agree with all that you say and also have hopes about Jim Jordan. I’ve always said that Republicans know how to govern but don’t know how to get elected and Democrats know how to get elected but don’t know how to govern.
And yes, knowing how to get elected means knowing how to game the system or cheat.
I think nothing ever changes without drawing a line in the sand. Which Republicans never do, until maybe now. They have all the leverage in a shutdown scenario, and it is the ONLY WAY they will ever lower the insane spending. They will NEVER get enough political control to change our trajectory without any Dems going along with it, and therefore they have to play very hardball and force them to the table. A six month shutdown might just bring Dems to the table on spending cute, and the Republicans have everything they need to make that happen right now. They CANNOT spend money without House approval.
Problem is drawing a line in the sand is more than just Ukraine. It's really the spending mandates, government programs. How many Republicans stood up and advocated for cutting SNAP payments which increased by 17%?
Yeah I'm not talking about Ukraine funding specifically, that's just the flavor of the moment. The idiots in Congress have been facilitating the looting of this country for decades, and it is going to stop one way or another at some point. The question is when and how painful will the reckoning be? I just hope there is a political solution before we end up in a French Revolution scenario....
"Gaetz sent out fundraising emails to herald his triumph and sends them out all the time. I always try and unsubscribe but he sends them out with no way to do it. That’s illegal."
It gets worse. Not only do the "Unsubscribe" and "Manage Preferences" links in his emails lead nowhere, but when I tell Earthlink that the emails are spam, they still come to my inbox.
I just hope Gaetz gets (no pun intended) primaried. He represents FL-01 which is about as deep-red as it gets, so any Republican can win it--and in Gaetz's case, already has :-(.
First, do we know that Gaetz didn't sit down with McCarthy or have some other attempt at middle ground? I doubt it, but the caucus is a curious place and you can't assume that some negotiation didn't take place. Second, why didn't the leader allow impeachment of Mayorkas to go forward? And let some other hardline things happen? One reason is there are about 20 members in seats that Biden won in 2020. Tough districts. Not saying it's the right call, politically, but Speakers who want to stay speaker have to count votes and get members re elected and beat incumbents to build a majority. Where Gaetz really really screwed up is that there is little chance of now returning to regular order. McCarthy needed a short term CR to get the rest of the spending bills through. Now the house will do nothing while the republicans look like fools, time will run out, and there will be another CR written by lobbyists, just as Gaetz complained. As my favorite goalie used to say "Some fun, eh?"
And let's be totally honest: Until we deal with the 70%+ of the budget that is mandated spending, nothing will change. Gaetz doesn't have the stature, the kahunas, nor the intestinal fortitude to take that on
What makes you think they are not playing the long game? Gaetz' very act is a long-term message of accountability and loyalty, which is something Republicans have not had for a long time. It's "failure theater."
So I think you are writing the epitaph a little early, here.
First, part of the problem here is that McCarthy made a deal and made promises. He capitulated and has not met those promises. You can defend him all you want, but he has not met the promises.
I don't like the squish world where everything performed poorly is excused for whatever reason. A lack of accountability is largely why government is in the mess it is in. It is why Republicans are in the mess they are in. Special interests are moving into the non-accountable void and doing what they wish. That has to end somewhere.
And some of your arguments seem self-defeating. If the Republicans have such a thin majority and are essentially powerless, then what difference does it make? At least send a message on what loyalty really means, and the consequences for not keeping your promises. Only from a purge and from ruthless unity can we govern. That is what is happening now, even if it looks "stupid."
I'll bet that the next Speaker will act more in line with his agreements, don't you?
And if it's Jim Jordan, I'm very happy with that choice.
No more squish Republicans. Play for keeps, and be ruthless. Its the only way to save what's left, even if it hurts a little in the short term.
I'd be happy with Jim Jordan as long as they don't get rid of him. If they keep the House in 2024, he keeps the speakership. Agree about failure theatre big time. I am sick of that too. However, there is reality in this situation and I don't think Gaetz is dealing with it. Noticeably, Lauren Boebert didn't vote with him.
Yeah, I hear you. On the flip side of my argument I would hate to think that Gaetz went into this thinking only one step ahead. Someone had to think, "ok, what next?"
My theory is that we just don't know it yet, but they do. A tenet of the Art of War is deception and surprise. I'm hoping that these guys have employed that, and that it will work out.
All I'm saying is let's see what happens first. I remember when the media was writing about how stupid this crew was when they put McCarthy through 15 rounds of voting for the Speakership. I like it, because it doesn't seem performative; it seems like they're actually, genuinely fighting it out over real objectives, not failure theater. That signals sincerity, and I like that more than the stage managed, choreographed political gruel we are fed day in and day out. The Democrats do that, and it reminds me of the propaganda from the Soviet Union.
Interesting post Mr Carter. Not sure I agree. The Republicans have been selling us the "long game" argument for quite a while and remain ineffectual and politically nuetered. McCarthy made specific promises that were not kept. Not crying for any of them. Just wishing we had an opposition party!!
I'll admit upfront that I don't expect anyone here to agree with me (and I'm fine with that), but, to be honest, I think what Gaetz did was just fine. For the reasons given above but also for the reasons given here (you'll have to read a few paragraphs in to set up the tie in).
<i>The time for conciliation, compromise, and appeasement are over. The enemies of America have captured the Democrat Party and made the Republicans into controlled opposition. It’s time for some genuine opposition to the sinister agenda of these corruptocrats. Matt Gaetz has made a mighty effort to restore the voice of the American people in their own government. For that, every American owes him a debt of gratitude.
I accept your perspective. My concern is that there's been some 50 years of waiting for the just the right moment to strike - or arguing that this is not "the hill to die on". Gaetz may've made "a futile and stupid gesture", but at least it was something that has panicked the business-as-usual types that things might be changing.
Yes, but who's in charge? I just try and stay positive and do whatever I can to hasten the outcome (ending) I think there are more of us everyday who have had our eyes opened and can no longer ignore the BS from the "Elites" Stay frosty gentlemen and keep up the good work!
The Conservative Treehouse is a great blog. But, sometimes I disagree with them. For example, they worship Trump. Yet, show me how Trump wins in 2024. Which state does he flip? Why? The Republican Party benefitted from Trump. But, at some point, they need to move beyond him and not regress to what they were before Trump. There is a place to go, and certainly the "oligarchs" and the RINOs and corporatists, led by McConnell don't see it.
I also don’t really think Trump is the answer to our problems. After all, he supported McCarthy. He signed off on all of the government spending that is used against Republicans specifically, and the middle class generally. We need a Teddy Roosevelt type trust buster. Certainly McCarthy was not up to the challenge. History is ironic. I can’t foresee what will happen (man plans and God laughs), but Im inclined to believe the most likely outcome of this whole fiasco will be something nobody saw coming. After all, Things could hardly be much worse than the are now. The system need a reality check.
While I will concede everything you said about Gaetz is true (and more), he is a CHANGE AGENT. And if the R's need anything, they need to change the way they do business, cuz what they have been doing since pervert Dennis Hastert was Speaker hasn't worked. They keep voting for these monstrosities they call CR's and are unwilling to put the knife to ANY program. To give you just two examples, Planned Parenthood and PBS.
And here is the thing. CHANGE AGENTS are MESSY AND BY DEFINITION, UPSET THE APPLE CART. Just look at the other recent CHANGE AGENT, DJT. I would dare say, that except for complete sycophants, there isn't a single sane person who voted for Trump either time liked everything he did. But in 2016, Trump was what this country needed.
Now, back to Gaetz and McCarthy. On the day that McCarthy won the Speakership he gave a speech in which he promised to change the way business was done in the House in Re: budgeting. He even mentioned specifically the funding for the 87,000 new IRS agents, saying they were going to cut it. He didn't. In fact, he began going back on every concessions/promises he made to the Freedom Caucus from day one.
When he could have kept the members in town to work on the 11 or 12 separate budget bills so they could get worked thru committee and then sent to the floor for an up or down vote, he instead sent everyone home for a 6 week vacation. And this isn't even a campaign year!!! He just adjourned the House again before being removed.
So, while Gaetz may not have a plan B, I would venture that what we do get will be better than what we have had for 25 years.
So dem solidarity is a given. Admirable, despite stalinist tactics. But try to get a squish RINO to man up and it lacks "nuance." Loser game.
And that's why to American people will rise and clean house.
PS: The longer that takes, the more brutal
I am okay with cleaning house. Start in 2024. Primary the RINOs and win. By the way, Trump backed candidates have lost a lot of significant races since and during 2020. I think real fiscal libertarian conservatism plays. I don't think Trump conservatism plays.
8 Republicans... and 208 Democrats voted McCarthy out. 8 out of 221 House Republicans. If Gaetz thought this would build faith and actual progress in the fiscal responsible agenda, agree he missed the mark big time. Democrats support this chaos since what is to come will all be blamed on Republicans.
What is to come? IMHO, November 17 will come fast for the next potential government shutdown. Now with no House leader, nothing will get done, and the idea that a new House leader will be in post haste is wishful thinking.
Fitch has downgraded US Debt to AA+, S&P has downgraded to AA+. When Moodys follows suit with a downgrade from AAA to AA+, this will have a ripple effect of turmoil throughout the economy and markets. All this bearishness suggests a market rally in the short term (Why? Because that's how markets work, and some central bank manipulation) but beware of November. Things don't look pretty ahead...
Gaetz looks like Newsome's slime ball brother. Never would have expected a Megyn podcast link, thanks. You forget to mention that beyond not understanding math or basic literacy, and being dumb, most of those folks are also 350+ pounder fatsos. A certain stupid cow Letitia comes to mind.
I agree with all that you say and also have hopes about Jim Jordan. I’ve always said that Republicans know how to govern but don’t know how to get elected and Democrats know how to get elected but don’t know how to govern.
And yes, knowing how to get elected means knowing how to game the system or cheat.
I think nothing ever changes without drawing a line in the sand. Which Republicans never do, until maybe now. They have all the leverage in a shutdown scenario, and it is the ONLY WAY they will ever lower the insane spending. They will NEVER get enough political control to change our trajectory without any Dems going along with it, and therefore they have to play very hardball and force them to the table. A six month shutdown might just bring Dems to the table on spending cute, and the Republicans have everything they need to make that happen right now. They CANNOT spend money without House approval.
Problem is drawing a line in the sand is more than just Ukraine. It's really the spending mandates, government programs. How many Republicans stood up and advocated for cutting SNAP payments which increased by 17%?
Yeah I'm not talking about Ukraine funding specifically, that's just the flavor of the moment. The idiots in Congress have been facilitating the looting of this country for decades, and it is going to stop one way or another at some point. The question is when and how painful will the reckoning be? I just hope there is a political solution before we end up in a French Revolution scenario....
Democrats extort both republicans and democrats who don’t walk the talk
It’s like going into a stretch fight with one hand tied behind his back
If Republicans want to win
They have to start playing hard ball not etiquette
💯
"Gaetz sent out fundraising emails to herald his triumph and sends them out all the time. I always try and unsubscribe but he sends them out with no way to do it. That’s illegal."
It gets worse. Not only do the "Unsubscribe" and "Manage Preferences" links in his emails lead nowhere, but when I tell Earthlink that the emails are spam, they still come to my inbox.
I just hope Gaetz gets (no pun intended) primaried. He represents FL-01 which is about as deep-red as it gets, so any Republican can win it--and in Gaetz's case, already has :-(.
First, do we know that Gaetz didn't sit down with McCarthy or have some other attempt at middle ground? I doubt it, but the caucus is a curious place and you can't assume that some negotiation didn't take place. Second, why didn't the leader allow impeachment of Mayorkas to go forward? And let some other hardline things happen? One reason is there are about 20 members in seats that Biden won in 2020. Tough districts. Not saying it's the right call, politically, but Speakers who want to stay speaker have to count votes and get members re elected and beat incumbents to build a majority. Where Gaetz really really screwed up is that there is little chance of now returning to regular order. McCarthy needed a short term CR to get the rest of the spending bills through. Now the house will do nothing while the republicans look like fools, time will run out, and there will be another CR written by lobbyists, just as Gaetz complained. As my favorite goalie used to say "Some fun, eh?"
We don't, and we don't know if negotiation took place. You'd think they'd say something if it did.
https://www.wsj.com/politics/nancy-mace-explains-why-she-nixed-kevin-mccarthy-as-house-speaker-32148d9d?mod=hp_lead_pos7 Nancy Mace on her vote
https://www.theepochtimes.com/us/exclusive-these-3-republicans-explain-why-they-voted-to-oust-mccarthy-5503817?utm_source=Morningbrief&src_src=Morningbrief&utm_campaign=mb-2023-10-05&src_cmp=mb-2023-10-05&utm_medium=email&est=zhswcGQToigDPbs38xUSScK4cOdW3jSu3XnhfhYj5uByX23oisME0zjoDVI%3D Glad they are being transparentish
And let's be totally honest: Until we deal with the 70%+ of the budget that is mandated spending, nothing will change. Gaetz doesn't have the stature, the kahunas, nor the intestinal fortitude to take that on
What makes you think they are not playing the long game? Gaetz' very act is a long-term message of accountability and loyalty, which is something Republicans have not had for a long time. It's "failure theater."
So I think you are writing the epitaph a little early, here.
First, part of the problem here is that McCarthy made a deal and made promises. He capitulated and has not met those promises. You can defend him all you want, but he has not met the promises.
I don't like the squish world where everything performed poorly is excused for whatever reason. A lack of accountability is largely why government is in the mess it is in. It is why Republicans are in the mess they are in. Special interests are moving into the non-accountable void and doing what they wish. That has to end somewhere.
And some of your arguments seem self-defeating. If the Republicans have such a thin majority and are essentially powerless, then what difference does it make? At least send a message on what loyalty really means, and the consequences for not keeping your promises. Only from a purge and from ruthless unity can we govern. That is what is happening now, even if it looks "stupid."
I'll bet that the next Speaker will act more in line with his agreements, don't you?
And if it's Jim Jordan, I'm very happy with that choice.
No more squish Republicans. Play for keeps, and be ruthless. Its the only way to save what's left, even if it hurts a little in the short term.
I'd be happy with Jim Jordan as long as they don't get rid of him. If they keep the House in 2024, he keeps the speakership. Agree about failure theatre big time. I am sick of that too. However, there is reality in this situation and I don't think Gaetz is dealing with it. Noticeably, Lauren Boebert didn't vote with him.
Yeah, I hear you. On the flip side of my argument I would hate to think that Gaetz went into this thinking only one step ahead. Someone had to think, "ok, what next?"
My theory is that we just don't know it yet, but they do. A tenet of the Art of War is deception and surprise. I'm hoping that these guys have employed that, and that it will work out.
All I'm saying is let's see what happens first. I remember when the media was writing about how stupid this crew was when they put McCarthy through 15 rounds of voting for the Speakership. I like it, because it doesn't seem performative; it seems like they're actually, genuinely fighting it out over real objectives, not failure theater. That signals sincerity, and I like that more than the stage managed, choreographed political gruel we are fed day in and day out. The Democrats do that, and it reminds me of the propaganda from the Soviet Union.
Not for me.
I liked that McCarthy had to earn it too.
Interesting post Mr Carter. Not sure I agree. The Republicans have been selling us the "long game" argument for quite a while and remain ineffectual and politically nuetered. McCarthy made specific promises that were not kept. Not crying for any of them. Just wishing we had an opposition party!!
I'll admit upfront that I don't expect anyone here to agree with me (and I'm fine with that), but, to be honest, I think what Gaetz did was just fine. For the reasons given above but also for the reasons given here (you'll have to read a few paragraphs in to set up the tie in).
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/406443.php
<i>The time for conciliation, compromise, and appeasement are over. The enemies of America have captured the Democrat Party and made the Republicans into controlled opposition. It’s time for some genuine opposition to the sinister agenda of these corruptocrats. Matt Gaetz has made a mighty effort to restore the voice of the American people in their own government. For that, every American owes him a debt of gratitude.
</i>
I am not antagonistic to that sentiment. I am antagonistic to the timing. Strategy is a thing
I accept your perspective. My concern is that there's been some 50 years of waiting for the just the right moment to strike - or arguing that this is not "the hill to die on". Gaetz may've made "a futile and stupid gesture", but at least it was something that has panicked the business-as-usual types that things might be changing.
Yes, but who's in charge? I just try and stay positive and do whatever I can to hasten the outcome (ending) I think there are more of us everyday who have had our eyes opened and can no longer ignore the BS from the "Elites" Stay frosty gentlemen and keep up the good work!
Gaetz is right. McCarthy was a bag man for oligarchs. Dribbling out bits of cash here and there to buy loyalty from Republicans on the cheap. He continued the government money laundering from the middle class with few complaints. Accountability is a bitch. I agree with everything in this commentary: https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2023/10/03/kevin-mccarthy-tells-republican-caucus-he-will-not-seek-speakership-again-heres-my-thoughts/
The Conservative Treehouse is a great blog. But, sometimes I disagree with them. For example, they worship Trump. Yet, show me how Trump wins in 2024. Which state does he flip? Why? The Republican Party benefitted from Trump. But, at some point, they need to move beyond him and not regress to what they were before Trump. There is a place to go, and certainly the "oligarchs" and the RINOs and corporatists, led by McConnell don't see it.
I also don’t really think Trump is the answer to our problems. After all, he supported McCarthy. He signed off on all of the government spending that is used against Republicans specifically, and the middle class generally. We need a Teddy Roosevelt type trust buster. Certainly McCarthy was not up to the challenge. History is ironic. I can’t foresee what will happen (man plans and God laughs), but Im inclined to believe the most likely outcome of this whole fiasco will be something nobody saw coming. After all, Things could hardly be much worse than the are now. The system need a reality check.
While I will concede everything you said about Gaetz is true (and more), he is a CHANGE AGENT. And if the R's need anything, they need to change the way they do business, cuz what they have been doing since pervert Dennis Hastert was Speaker hasn't worked. They keep voting for these monstrosities they call CR's and are unwilling to put the knife to ANY program. To give you just two examples, Planned Parenthood and PBS.
And here is the thing. CHANGE AGENTS are MESSY AND BY DEFINITION, UPSET THE APPLE CART. Just look at the other recent CHANGE AGENT, DJT. I would dare say, that except for complete sycophants, there isn't a single sane person who voted for Trump either time liked everything he did. But in 2016, Trump was what this country needed.
Now, back to Gaetz and McCarthy. On the day that McCarthy won the Speakership he gave a speech in which he promised to change the way business was done in the House in Re: budgeting. He even mentioned specifically the funding for the 87,000 new IRS agents, saying they were going to cut it. He didn't. In fact, he began going back on every concessions/promises he made to the Freedom Caucus from day one.
When he could have kept the members in town to work on the 11 or 12 separate budget bills so they could get worked thru committee and then sent to the floor for an up or down vote, he instead sent everyone home for a 6 week vacation. And this isn't even a campaign year!!! He just adjourned the House again before being removed.
So, while Gaetz may not have a plan B, I would venture that what we do get will be better than what we have had for 25 years.
Now, about the Turtle.